‘The I in ISIS stands for Islamic’: Push to take religion out of terror laws

Key Concepts

• Definition of Terrorism: Proposed changes to the legal definition of terrorist acts, specifically regarding the inclusion of religion and ideology as motivations.
• Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC): A body proposing to remove religion as a factor in defining terrorism.
• Counterterrorism Policy: Discussions on the effectiveness and implications of current and proposed counterterrorism measures.
• Public Service Austerity Drive: Government initiatives to reduce public sector spending and jobs.
• Work-from-Home Policies: Debates surrounding the prevalence and fairness of remote work in the public sector.
• Economic Productivity: Concerns about declining business investment and productivity in Australia.
• Christmas Traditions: Lighthearted discussion about common Christmas season elements like music, decorations, and food.

Proposed Changes to the Definition of Terrorism

The discussion centers on a push to redefine "terrorist act," with the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) proposing that religion should no longer be considered a motivation for terror. Furthermore, 15 Muslim groups advocate for both religion and ideology to be excluded from the definition.

David Elliot, former New South Wales Police Minister and the first minister for counterterrorism in NSW, strongly opposes these proposals, labeling them "ridiculous." He argues that the very definition of extremism involves views that are "beyond the pale" and that excluding religion or ideology would fundamentally alter the understanding of terrorism.

• Elliot's Argument: He points to historical examples like the IRA (Irish Republican Army) and conflicts in India and Sri Lanka to demonstrate that extremism is not confined to any single religion, citing instances of religious motivations in violence. He emphasizes the need to avoid "demonizing a religion" while acknowledging that "every religion has an extremist." He specifically mentions ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria), noting that "the I in ISIS stands for Islamic," and stresses the importance of working with the "mainstream Islamic community" to counter dangerous interpretations of faith.

Tanya Mahalik, an Independent MP for New South Wales, discusses the ramifications of removing religion from the definition.

• Mahalik's Perspective: She believes removing religion would "change the definition of terrorist act in its entirety." She expresses confidence in Michelle Rowland, the Attorney-General, whose speech on the review was perceived as "proportionate" and balancing "safety" with "civil liberties."
• Government Agency Stance: Mahalik notes that key Australian agencies, including the Attorney-General's Department (AG), the Australian Federal Police (AFP), and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT), have not suggested any changes to the definition.
• Human Rights Commissions' Proposals: She highlights that both the AHRC and the Victorian Human Rights Commission have proposed removing religion. She finds it "extraordinary" that the Victorian government itself did not make a submission, especially given past terrorist incidents in Victoria.
• Criticism of AHRC: Mahalik strongly criticizes the AHRC, calling it a "useless prop" and suggesting it should be "completely defunded," citing their stance on gender identity and now terrorism definitions.

Public Service Austerity Drive and Work-from-Home Policies

The conversation shifts to the Labor government's austerity drive within the public service, which involves hundreds of job cuts due to perceived financial mismanagement.

• Context: This initiative is contrasted with the government's previous criticism of Peter Dutton for proposing public service cuts.
• Low Office Attendance: A significant concern raised is the low rate of full-time office attendance, with figures as low as 1 in 10 in some government agencies.
• Labor's Public Service Growth: David Elliot points out that Labor has overseen a 25% increase in the public service, which he describes as a "record."
• Elliot's Critique: He characterizes this as a "typical socialist approach," involving high taxation to "buy votes" in the public sector and then using fear tactics before elections. He quotes Margaret Thatcher: "the problem with socialism is you run out of other people's money to give away."
• Fairness and Parity: Elliot's primary concern regarding working from home is not the flexibility itself but the "idea of parity and the idea of fairness." He questions how it can be justified when some public servants work from home ("wandering downstairs with their pajama pants still on") while others are expected to be in the office. He believes this is unjustifiable given the current high levels of government spending.

Tanya Mahalik elaborates on the irresponsibility of these policies.

• Economic Impact: She argues that these policies are irresponsible when business investment and productivity are down in Australia.
• Resource Drain: Mahalik contends that the public sector is "draining resources away from the private sector" because public sector wages and conditions (including work-from-home flexibility) are more attractive, diverting talent and investment needed for economic recovery.
• Disappointment with Katy Gallagher: She expresses disappointment that Katy Gallagher walked back on an announced 5% efficiency savings measure, which was initially perceived as including job cuts and representing a "positive austerity drive" and "exercise and discipline."

Christmas Season Discussion

The final segment of the transcript features a lighthearted discussion about Christmas traditions.

• David Elliot's Column: Elliot mentions his column in the Daily Telegraph, where he addresses topics like turkey and Mariah Carey. He humorously notes that the amount of Mariah Carey music played in offices can cause "fights." He also expresses personal reservations about Christmas lights due to past near-electrocution incidents.
• Christmas Carols and Lights: Elliot states he enjoys general Christmas carols and lights.
• Food Preferences: He is not a fan of turkey but enjoys shish kebabs. He mentions celebrating Christmas on January 6th or 7th, implying a longer festive period.
• Elliot's Next Column: He previews his upcoming column, which will be "philosophical" and explore "the way that life proceeds" and "all of those things that we do in life that change us."

Synthesis/Conclusion

The transcript highlights significant debates surrounding the definition of terrorism in Australia, with a clear divergence between government agencies and the Human Rights Commission regarding the role of religion. It also delves into concerns about the economic implications of public sector expansion and work-from-home policies, arguing that they may be detrimental to private sector investment and overall productivity. The discussion concludes with a brief, informal exchange about personal Christmas preferences. The core takeaway is a critical examination of proposed policy changes and their potential societal and economic consequences, juxtaposed with a lighthearted reflection on seasonal traditions.