"Pom Squad" Blows away Australia| The Telegraph Rugby Podcast

Key Concepts

• Autumn Internationals: A series of international rugby union matches played in the Northern Hemisphere during the autumn months.
• Borthwick Ball: A tactical approach attributed to England's head coach Steve Borthwick, characterized by contestable kicking, tough but agile forward play, and selection tailored to opponents.
• Bomb Squad: A term used to describe a powerful and impactful bench of forwards, often associated with South Africa's rugby team.
• Hybrid Players: Players who possess the versatility to play multiple positions effectively.
• Test Windows: Designated periods in the international rugby calendar when national teams are permitted to play official Test matches.
• TMO (Television Match Official): An official who assists the referee by reviewing decisions using television replays.
• 2031 Rugby World Cup: The next Rugby World Cup, scheduled to be hosted by the United States.

England's Performance Against Australia

Main Topics and Key Points:

• England's Promising Start: England secured a convincing 25-7 victory over Australia in the third test of the autumn internationals.
• Australia's Subdued Performance: Australia appeared to be a "shadow of the side" seen in the second Test in Melbourne, described as "strangely subdued" and "passive." This was attributed to the absence of key players like James O'Connor, Ikitau, Tom Wright, and Skelton, which likely impacted their phase attack.
• England's Tactical Execution: England's performance was praised for its effective execution of a "simple game plan" that focused on physicality and direct play. Key elements included well-executed aerial contests, effective box kicking, and a dominant rolling maul from outside the 22.
• "Borthwick Ball" in Action: The tactics deployed against Australia were seen as a clear manifestation of "Borthwick Ball," emphasizing contestable kicking, tough forward play, and opponent-specific selection. The 6-2 bench split was strategically used to inject energy and exploit potential fatigue in the Australian team.
• Defensive Strength: England's defensive performance was highlighted as a key factor in their victory, demonstrating strong preparation and nullification of Australia's anticipated tactics, particularly their close-range phase play.
• Potential for Improvement: Despite the win, there's a belief that England could have achieved a much larger margin of victory (potentially 40 points) with more cohesion, less rustiness, and greater confidence, especially with players like Freddie Steward having more time at outside centre.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Australia's Weakened State: The consensus is that Australia's performance was significantly hampered by player absences, preventing them from showcasing their full potential.
• England's Tactical Acumen: Steve Borthwick's coaching is credited with a well-defined and effectively executed game plan that exploited Australia's weaknesses.
• The Power of the Maul: The successful rolling maul try was seen as a symbol of England's forward dominance and commitment, reflecting Borthwick's desire for sustained effort throughout the match.

Notable Quotes:

• "I felt was a shadow of the side that we saw in the second test in Melbourne." (Referring to Australia's performance)
• "They were workmanlike and I think they started well, such a backhanded compliment. And, but ultimately I felt overall they were strangely subdued. Quite passive and I think they looked like a team that's played too much test rugby." (Describing Australia)
• "Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant because there was – I mean see what the other boys think but I thought physically Australia started well. They do have big athletes, but also for England without that much time together, it was always going to be quite a simple game plan. And I thought they executed it really impressively." (On England's performance)
• "And I have to admit seeing a a mall rolled over from outside the 22 is something that warms my heart as well." (Expressing appreciation for England's maul)
• "So, I think the the use of Ben of the first of all the selection of Borthwick's 6-2 bench and then the timing timing with which it was deployed with half an hour left first – you know, first defensive sequence they win a jackal turnover through Luke Kandiki after Henry Pollock had a dab at the ball I think that was just vindication and the mall was a really big part of how this 6-2 bench this energized England and – played on what potentially could have been a little bit of fatigue with with Australia." (Explaining the tactical use of the bench)

Freddie Steward's Transition to Outside Centre

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Divergent Opinions: There are differing views on Freddie Steward's performance at outside centre, with some advocating for his development in the role and others questioning his distribution.
• Will Greenwood's Perspective: Will Greenwood supports Steward's placement at 13 as part of a two-year project leading up to the World Cup, emphasizing the need for him to gain experience in the position.
• Steward's Current Style: He is described as looking like a "wing playing centre at the minute," with his natural instincts as a winger not always translating effectively to the demands of an outside centre.
• Areas for Improvement: Specific instances were highlighted where Steward could have passed to a winger in space (e.g., to Feyi-Waboso) rather than attempting to go himself or dummying. This points to a need for better decision-making and awareness of supporting players.
• Pace and Acceleration: A key difference between wing and outside centre is the need for an extra burst of pace or change of pace to exploit gaps. Steward's acceleration was noted as not being distinct enough in certain situations.
• Defensive Strengths: Steward's defensive capabilities were praised, particularly his ability to make repeat sprints, read the game, and make robust tackles, showcasing his athleticism and agility as a defensive asset.
• Long-Term Project: The consensus is that Steward's move to 13 is a long-term development plan, with the potential for him to become a proficient outside centre within a couple of years.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Development vs. Immediate Impact: The discussion revolves around whether to prioritize Steward's long-term development at 13 or to utilize him in a way that maximizes immediate attacking impact, potentially by giving the ball more to wingers like Feyi-Waboso.
• Instincts of a Winger: Steward's natural tendencies as a winger are seen as both a strength (in defense) and a potential limitation (in decision-making at centre).

Notable Quotes:

• "I think he looks like a wing playing center at the minute."
• "The only way that you become a 13 is by playing it. But on Saturday, and it it was a first hit out, first run out. He looked like a wing playing at center."
• "So, on those occasions nine times out of 10 it is better just to give your wing a one he had a one-on-one with a bit of space on the outside against I can't remember who was against him."
• "I thought he was excellent in defense and he used that. We always hear about his ability to repeat sprints."
• "I think the other key point to this Al is if you look at the options England now have on the wing and it's fitting everyone in and Faboso to me he just looked like this wonderful luxury on Saturday that he got one ball he looked like the most explosive dangerous attacking player on the pitch."

England's Bench Strategy and Player Selection

Main Topics and Key Points:

• "Bomb Squad" Debate: The term "bomb squad" is frequently used to describe England's bench, though some argue it's not an entirely accurate descriptor.
• Hybrid Player Search: England is actively seeking "hybrid players" who can offer versatility across positions.
• Early Team Announcements: There's a trend towards earlier team announcements, mirroring strategies seen in other rugby nations.
• 7-1 Bench Split: The possibility of a 7-1 split (seven forwards, one back) on the bench is discussed as a tactical option, similar to South Africa's approach. This could involve players like Raffi Quirke, who can cover scrum-half and wing.
• Forward Depth and Impact: The focus on a strong forward bench is driven by the desire to maintain physicality and impact throughout the game, particularly in the latter stages.
• Managing Senior Pros: A challenge for coaches is convincing experienced players that their best role for the team might be coming off the bench.
• Potential New Zealand Matchup: For the New Zealand game, a mixed bench is anticipated, possibly including a combination of Genge, George, and Cowan Dickie, with considerations for starting Joe Heyes at tighthead.
• Strategic Bench Choices: The decision on bench composition is influenced by the opponent and the need to balance impact with specific skill sets.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Impactful Bench: The emphasis is on creating a bench that can significantly influence the game, particularly in the final quarter.
• Versatility and Adaptability: The search for hybrid players reflects a desire for tactical flexibility and the ability to adapt to different game situations.
• Management of Player Expectations: Coaches need to effectively manage the expectations of senior players regarding their roles on the bench.

Notable Quotes:

• "The other thing is you know looking for hybrid players is something that England are doing."
• "I think if they go 7-1, Raffi Quirk might be quite a clever guy to have in 23."
• "Borthwick would have looked at the results last year when so many games got away from England in the final quarter or even even more tightly than that at the end of the matches. He wants experience to win matches – when when the game is on the line."
• "And I I don't think the starting team for New Zealand necessarily will be the best 15 players guys have available."

Refereeing and Match Official Communication

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Pre-Match Tactics and Officials: England's camp highlighted specific tactics to match officials before the game against Australia, aiming to influence their decision-making.
• Breakdown Officiating: Australia was noted for being "squeaky clean at the breakdown," with few penalties for side entry.
• Referee Performance: Both coaches acknowledged that Nic Berry refereed well, and the general consensus was positive despite some communication issues.
• Chaotic Communication: A significant point of discussion was the "chaotic" communication between the four officials, which may have been a distraction for the referee.
• TMO Issues: There were instances where the referee might not have been hearing the TMO, potentially impacting decision-making.
• "Boy Who Cried Wolf" Effect: The constant emphasis on certain infringements by assistant referees might have led to a "boy who cried wolf" scenario, where crucial calls were missed.
• Technology Failures: Frustration was expressed regarding technology letting down referees, citing examples of communication breakdowns and issues with screens.
• Balancing Referee's Call: The need to restore balance in favor of the referee's on-field decision-making was emphasized, with a call for quicker resolutions.
• Screen Usage: The practice of referees huddling around a screen on the side of the pitch was advocated as a standard procedure for better clarity.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Effectiveness of Pre-Match Briefings: The pre-match briefing to officials was deemed successful as England won, though ironically, England was penalized first for an attacking infringement.
• Challenges of Multi-Official Communication: The complexity of communication between multiple officials in a fast-paced game was highlighted as a significant challenge.
• Importance of Clear Technology: Reliable technology is crucial for accurate and efficient officiating.
• Referee Autonomy: There's a desire for referees to have more autonomy and make decisions with greater confidence, without excessive external input.

Notable Quotes:

• "They highlighted it. They had they had Australia on high alert. They had the referee on highlight, but then ironically it was England who were penalized first for an attacking side entry in the match."
• "The communication between all four officials was so chaotic and that cannot have been easy for Amish Kelly to deal to deal with."
• "It did feel it felt it felt like a distraction to him."
• "I think we have to get the balance back a little bit more in the favor of the of the referee's call and I thought on Saturday despite what was going on in his ear he actually managed it well."
• "What we saw in New Zealand with the referees huddling with the officials huddling around a screen on the side of the pitch like V. They should do that anyway."

New Zealand vs. Ireland in Chicago

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Disappointing Event: The match in Chicago was largely considered a disappointment as an event due to several factors.
• Pitch Condition: The state of the pitch was a major talking point, with reports of sand molds and uneven surfaces, which negatively impacted the game.
• Atmosphere and Production Value: The atmosphere was not as vibrant as expected, and there were issues with production value, including a lack of a big screen to inform the crowd.
• Red Card Controversy: The game started with a controversial red card decision that led to significant delays.
• New Zealand's Familiar Finish: Despite the disruptions, New Zealand demonstrated their characteristic ability to accelerate through the game in the last 20 minutes, securing a 26-13 victory.
• Ireland's Rustiness: Ireland appeared mentally "rusty" in key moments, exhibiting indecision rather than physical fatigue.
• New Zealand's Transition: New Zealand is acknowledged to be in a "funny place" and in transition, but their attacking prowess and clinical finishing remain potent.
• Impact on 2031 World Cup Bid: The poor execution of the event in Chicago was seen as a setback for the US bid to host the 2031 Rugby World Cup.
• Ireland's Benefit: The match is considered "massively useful" for Ireland in terms of getting them up to speed for their upcoming games, exposing areas where they are short and rusty.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Missed Opportunity for US Rugby: The event failed to capitalize on the opportunity to showcase rugby to a US audience and promote the 2031 World Cup bid.
• New Zealand's Enduring Qualities: Despite being in transition, New Zealand's core strengths of skill, game management, and late-game acceleration remain formidable.
• Ireland's Need for Adaptation: Ireland needs to adapt to the evolving game, which increasingly emphasizes strike plays over prolonged possession.

Notable Quotes:

• "As an event – I think you have to feel it was a disappointment for lots of reasons."
• "Clearly the pitch wasn't up to scratch."
• "So you've just got this this sense concept if we're going to sell the game to to the US. Let's give it every opportunity. Give it every opportunity. You don't want really inexplicable delays."
• "So, you know, some of the biggest loser last weekend was Rugby World Cup 2031 especially with what happened at Murrayfield you know, it really wasn't it yeah."
• "And what doesn't change is when you give New Zealand half a chance they have the skill set the the game management just bang bang bang take a game away from you. you cannot give them a moment."
• "So, I think and the start the delayed start to the the the fact that Ireland you could clearly see just in key moments looked rusty mentally far said about them switch it wasn't physical fatigue it was just making the right decisions."
• "New Zealand are in a funny place aren't they definitely in transition – but their some of their attack even in the game that they got pumped by the spring box in is really breathtaking the way they're moving the ball."

Ireland's Lack of Out-and-Out Gas

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Major Concern for Ireland: A significant concern for Ireland is the lack of "out-and-out gas" or genuine speed in their backline.
• Historical Context: The last player with exceptional speed mentioned was Denis Hickie, highlighting a historical gap.
• Competition from Other Sports: The prevalence of Gaelic football and hurling in Ireland is suggested as a reason for fewer athletes with pure sprinting ability entering the rugby talent pool.
• Winger Profile: Ireland has focused on wingers who are not necessarily the fastest but possess other valuable attributes like distribution, kicking, and involvement in phases (e.g., James Lowe, Michael Hansen).
• "Messi Wingers": This term describes wingers who are highly involved in play, come into the line, and act as additional distributors.
• Evolution of the Game: The game has shifted towards strike plays, where pace and decisive action are crucial, and Ireland has not fully adapted to this.
• The 10 Dilemma: A more significant issue for Ireland is the lack of a proven out-half to replace Johnny Sexton, with young fly-halves lacking the same game management and vision.
• Emerging Talent: Players like Paddy McCarthy (22) are being introduced, indicating a focus on future development.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Strategic Winger Selection: Ireland's approach to wingers has been to prioritize all-around skills over pure speed, which has worked in the past but may be less effective in the current game.
• Adaptation to Modern Rugby: Ireland needs to evolve its game plan to incorporate more pace and strike play to remain competitive.
• The Fly-Half Void: The absence of a world-class fly-half is a critical issue that needs to be addressed for Ireland's long-term success.

Notable Quotes:

• "Speaking of acceleration, Gav, the one thing we can't get away from and it's something that we've said about Ireland over and over and we can chat a little bit about the generation that's maybe coming to the end of their time with this national team, but the one thing is that we haven't had for quite a while now is out and out gas. How much of a concern is that for Ireland? It's a major concern."
• "So, but you know genuinely the the the athletics genetics the comp competition for athletes Gaelic football hurling there's lots of the there's lots of reason why in the kind of the Irish rugby talent pool they just at the in the last decade haven't produced."
• "So, it's almost, you know, James Low and Mike Hansen's point of difference isn't their speed, but it's their ability to add an extra attacking distributor, kicker, Keenan."
• "But I think we're seeing that, and we talked about this earlier, Al, but Right now the transition for Ireland is when they were at their peak in 23 it was all about possession multi-phase attack. The game's changed since then and I think Ireland haven't really managed to adapt themselves to like the way we saw England play of just strike plays."
• "For me, the biggest – point in all this is having a 10. They haven't they haven't replaced Johnny Saxon yet."

Scotland vs. New Zealand Preview

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Scotland's Potential: Scotland is seen as having the potential to challenge New Zealand, especially at home.
• Finn Russell's Influence: Finn Russell's game management, restraint, and kicking game are highlighted as crucial to Scotland's success, enabling their balanced backline to create opportunities.
• New Zealand's Forward Threat: New Zealand is expected to target Scotland at the scrum and lineout, with their forwards coach Jason Ryland being a significant asset.
• Key All Blacks Forwards: Players like Pilipeau Tosi, Tyrel Lomax, and Asafo Aumua are identified as influential forwards.
• Scotland's Need to Take Chances: Scotland needs to take early chances and back their own game to compete.
• Prediction of a Scotland Win: One commentator surprisingly predicts a Scotland victory, emphasizing their ability to take the game deep and win if their balanced game and back five perform well.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Scotland's Home Advantage: Playing at home is seen as a significant factor that could boost Scotland's chances.
• Russell's Control: Finn Russell's ability to control the game is considered more important than flashy passes.
• New Zealand's Forward Power: Scotland will need to counter New Zealand's strong forward pack.

Notable Quotes:

• "I think I I think and I and I always say this because – I'm always high on Scotland because I just covered so many Kolkata Cup games where Finn Russell's just looked and it hasn't been the amazing things Finn I'm honestly like a broken record with this must made this point a million times, but it's not the eye-catching passes that he's pushing and and the 30 meter passes that he's throwing. is how he controls a game and how much restraint he shows in a game with the kicking game and things like that and how Scotland's fantastically balanced backline get opportunities off the back of that."
• "I think the all backs will fancy their chances of going hard at at Scotland at the scrum and the line out and stuff like that and Jason Ryland their forwards coach is just such a big – big asset for them."
• "I think at home – if Scotland get their best balanced game on the pitch and their back five really stand up. I think they could take it really deep. I think they can win it."

France vs. South Africa Preview

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Revenge Motivation: The French public will be seeking revenge for their 2023 World Cup quarter-final loss to South Africa.
• Differing Sides: Both teams have evolved since their last encounter, and the stakes are lower than in the World Cup.
• Referee Appointment: Angus Gardner will be the referee, a potentially challenging appointment given the French public's dissatisfaction with the officiating in the 2023 World Cup match.
• French Team Transition: France is undergoing a transition, with changes in the forward pack (e.g., Gregory Aldritt being phased out, Mikaele Tu'u moving to No. 8, Paul Gabrillagues at lock).
• Potential New Center Pairing: Injuries to Yoram Moefana and Jonathan Danty could lead to a new center pairing of Gaël Fickou and Nicolas Depoortere.
• South Africa's Consistency: South Africa is favored to win due to their consistency and cohesion, while France is coming into the match "a bit cold" after not playing last weekend.
• South Africa's Regeneration: South Africa has regenerated well, with players like Finberg Mazulu emerging as key figures. They are adept at managing their team cycles.
• Unpredictability of France: France remains an unpredictable team, capable of winning by a large margin or losing significantly.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Psychological Edge: France's desire for revenge could be a motivating factor, but the current team dynamics are different.
• South Africa's Experience: South Africa's continuity and established systems give them an advantage.
• France's Potential for Variance: France's performance can be highly variable, making the match difficult to predict.

Notable Quotes:

• "I think among the public certainly they will want revenge and retribution."
• "I think one person that I'm glad that I'm not on Saturday night is Angus Gardner, who is going to be the referee, and he's got a bit of a hospital pass there."
• "I think by by the sounds of things, Gregory Aldry is being sort of phased out from from that from that French French pack."
• "I think France could win that game by 20 points or lose by 20 points on Saturday."
• "No, no, they they've they've regenerated really well. – Fineberg Mazulu is a great poster boy for that."
• "They are experts at managing the cycle and they they lean into that even more than sort of Eddie Jones did, you know."

Wales vs. Argentina Preview

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Upheaval Off the Park: Wales is experiencing significant off-field turmoil, including uncertainty around the club game and potential axing of teams.
• Steve Tandy's Influence: Steve Tandy, the new coach, is highly respected and is seen as a unifying figure for the squad.
• Player Form: Wales' recent form has been "atrocious."
• Argentina's Strength: Argentina is described as a "hell of a side" based on their Rugby Championship performances.
• Manageable Start for Wales: The match against Argentina is considered a winnable game for Wales, which is what they need at this stage.
• Focus on Squad Mood: The key for Wales will be managing the mood of the squad amidst the off-field uncertainty.
• Long-Term Vision for Welsh Rugby: The potential reduction to three regions and a more focused, centrally contracted approach could be beneficial for Welsh rugby in the medium to long term.
• Autumn Fixtures: Wales faces a tough autumn schedule, with Argentina being a winnable opener, followed by Japan (minimum one win expected), and then challenging games against New Zealand and South Africa.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Resilience Amidst Chaos: Wales needs to find a way to perform on the field despite the ongoing instability off the field.
• Tandy's Leadership: Steve Tandy's respected coaching style is seen as crucial for uniting the squad and providing a fresh start.
• Argentina's Formidable Challenge: Argentina's recent performances indicate they will be a tough opponent.
• Realistic Autumn Expectations: A realistic goal for Wales in the autumn is to secure a win against Argentina and Japan, with the other matches being significant challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• "There's certainly uncertainty around the club game there. you know, recommendations of axing teams, uh, you know, talk of the going down to three, who's it going to be? Is it going to be a new entity? Just a complete soap opera at all times."
• "But in the background, Steve Tandee has come very well respected."
• "For me this is all going to be about managing the kind of mood of the squad and it must be a desperately difficult time at the minute as a professional rugby player in Wales with the uncertainty that's really been there."
• "So, what we one win maybe against Japan bare minimum and then two bonus two above par would you say and then three three is absolute dreamland. Two would be fantastic and then the other two games they are on the ropes tucking up to be honest."

Fiji's Threat to England

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Fiji's Potential to Trouble England: The primary excitement surrounding Fiji is their ability to trouble England, particularly beyond the 13-man channel or even at 12 with players like Tosa.
• England's Bench Strategy vs. Fiji: There's a debate about England's bench strategy against Fiji.
  • 7-1 Split: Some believe this week is an ideal opportunity to try a 7-1 bench split, given Fiji's physicality.
  • Full Strength: Others argue for fielding a full-strength team to build cohesion for the New Zealand match.
• Building Cohesion: The importance of building partnerships and cohesion for the upcoming All Blacks game is a key consideration.
• Past Encounter: England lost to Fiji in a previous encounter before the World Cup, a memory that might be in the back of Borthwick's mind.
• Borthwick's Focus: Steve Borthwick's priority is the evolution of the side for the entire autumn program, not necessarily immediate revenge for past losses.
• Freeman and Lawrence Partnership: The potential for Freddie Steward and Ollie Lawrence to play together at 13 and 12, either from the start or off the bench, is discussed.
• Physicality of Fiji: Fiji's physicality, particularly with players like Tosa, poses a significant threat to England's midfield.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Fiji's Unpredictability and Skill: Fiji's ability to create try-scoring opportunities through individual brilliance and dynamic play is a major concern for any opponent.
• Balancing Development and Performance: England must decide whether to prioritize building partnerships for the future or fielding their strongest possible team to secure a win against Fiji.
• The Threat of Fiji's Backline: Fiji's ability to exploit space and break tackles in the midfield is a key area England needs to defend against.

Notable Quotes:

• "From the how they trouble England beyond 13 I think. Okay. Or even at 12 with Tosa."
• "I think this week might be the week to go 7-1. He's mentioned that he's been looking at it."
• "Otherwise, I would go full strength against Fiji. I would go whatever the team you think it is against New Zealand. – you go with that this week."
• "Fiji were very very very very handy against England the head of the the World Cup obviously he'd been sort of thrown in at the deep end at that point."
• "And I'm quite torn and I I think I largely agree with Charles that you you know England want to be building in those partnerships. We've talked about Freeman. He needs more time."
• "And I think there is a risk of free with Freeman I know Freeman is a lump but Tusova is bigger with Freeman having only his third test at 13 and Dingwall inside him who is not the biggest bloke there's a risk that Fiji could get sort of a lot of sort of purchase through the."

England's Winger and Center Strategy

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Depth and Quality of Wingers: England's abundance of quality wingers is leading to strategic decisions about player placement.
• Sacrificing Specialists: There's a question of whether England is sacrificing specialist centers or number eights to get more of a certain type of player on the field, potentially wingers in different roles.
• 6-2 Bench Split: The prevalence of a 6-2 bench split (six forwards, two backs) is a reflection of the perceived value of forward depth and impact.
• Tom Roebuck's Impact: Tom Roebuck is highlighted as a player who has been "fantastic" and "assured" in his opportunities, particularly in aerial contests. His athleticism and poise are noted as being well-suited to Steve Borthwick's setup.
• Freeman's Move to 13: Freddie Steward's move to outside centre is partly pragmatic due to Roebuck's assured performances on the wing.
• Roebuck's Aerial Ability: Roebuck's ability to "levitate" and win high balls is a significant asset.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Strategic Prioritization: England's coaching staff is making strategic choices about player roles based on the overall depth and quality of their squad.
• Value of Aerial Prowess: Players with strong aerial abilities, like Tom Roebuck, are highly valued in Borthwick's tactical approach.
• Adaptability of Wingers: The discussion suggests that some wingers are being utilized in roles that require different skill sets, such as outside centre.

Notable Quotes:

• "Are England going the same route with wingers that they have with flankers due to depth and quality – sacrificing specialists in center or or at number eight to get more of a certain type on the field."
• "I think that the – even when you're looking at England 23 now, you are pitting a who who is more valuable to to a side and therefore who is more likely to get in the side. Is it an extra flanker in which case they go 6'2 even 7-1 in this brand new world or is it a is it that center and therefore do they go 5-3."
• "Tom Robbert he was fantastic and part of the reason really part of the reason that the Freeman move to 13 was so attractive pragmatic was because Tom Roach has been so assured with every chance he's been given in – test rugby."
• "And that guy can levitate. I'm not convinced that he's tailored to the ground only."

Value of Test Rugby and Ranking Points

Main Topics and Key Points:

• Out-of-Window Games and Rankings: A listener questions whether out-of-window games should count towards ranking points.
• Test Match Status: The prevailing view is that all games played between national teams are Test matches and should count for rankings, regardless of whether they fall within official windows.
• Player Availability: The argument is made that even within windows, teams can experience injury crises, so the availability of players shouldn't dictate ranking point status.
• Australia's Absences: Australia was missing key players in their match against England, demonstrating that even "full" teams can have significant absences.
• Devaluation of Test Rugby: A broader concern is raised about playing "too much test rugby," which could devalue the product and negatively impact the business of rugby in the long term.

Key Arguments/Perspectives:

• Consistency in Rankings: Rankings should be based on all official Test matches played, regardless of the timing.
• The Business of Rugby: The long-term sustainability of rugby as a sport depends on maintaining the value and appeal of its core product, Test matches.

Notable Quotes:

• "Should out of window games count in terms of ranking points."
• "No. No. It's still it's still a test match."
• "Australia were missing four of their best players. England were missing Furbank, George Martin, Jack Van Portfleet probably on the bench at nine."
• "I think a broader point is the value of test rugby. So whether we talk about right or not, it's like there is a risk that we're playing too much test rugby. It's going to devalue the product and that's not good long term for just the business of rugby."

Conclusion/Synthesis

The discussion highlights the start of the autumn internationals with England's solid victory over a weakened Australia, showcasing Steve Borthwick's tactical approach. Freddie Steward's transition to outside centre is a key development, with ongoing debate about his effectiveness and the team's strategic use of wingers. England's bench strategy, including the potential for a 7-1 split, is a significant talking point, reflecting a focus on forward power and hybrid players. Refereeing communication and technology issues were also raised as areas for improvement.

The podcast also delves into the New Zealand vs. Ireland match, which was marred by pitch conditions and production issues, but still saw New Zealand's characteristic late-game surge. Ireland's lack of pure speed and the ongoing fly-half dilemma are identified as major concerns. Previews of upcoming matches include Scotland vs. New Zealand, with Finn Russell's influence being crucial for Scotland, and France vs. South Africa, a rematch of a World Cup classic with both teams in transition. Wales faces a challenging period with off-field upheaval but has a respected new coach in Steve Tandy. Finally, Fiji's physicality is seen as a significant threat to England, prompting discussions about team selection and strategic approaches. The broader issue of the value and potential over-saturation of Test rugby is also considered.