Jacob Rees-Mogg on Tory ‘psychodrama’: Badenoch and Farage must work together | The Daily T

Key Concepts

• Psycho Drama in Politics: The term used to describe internal party conflicts and personal attacks, which Jacob Rees-Mogg argues is an inherent and even appealing aspect of politics.
• Conservative vs. Reform UK: The ideological and practical differences between the Conservative Party and Reform UK, particularly regarding policy implementation and parliamentary engagement.
• "Wet Party" / One Nation Conservatives: A derogatory term for centrist or liberal-leaning Conservatives, contrasted with the "right" wing of the party. "One Nation Conservatives" refers to a specific faction advocating for a return to the party's center ground.
• Net Zero Policy: Government targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, criticized by Jacob Rees-Mogg as "looney" and economically damaging.
• Personal Vote (in British Politics): The proportion of votes cast for an individual candidate rather than their party, estimated by Philip Cowley to be around 2%.
• Sino-British Joint Declaration: The 1984 treaty between the UK and China guaranteeing Hong Kong's high degree of autonomy and freedoms until 2047.
• Jimmy Lai: A British citizen and Hong Kong media mogul, imprisoned by China under the National Security Law, whose case is cited as a breach of international agreements.
• Shamima Begum Case: The controversial case of a British citizen who joined ISIS, raising questions about citizenship revocation, due process, and the treatment of groomed minors.
• British Citizenship (Civic vs. Ethnic Nationalism): The debate over whether British identity is based on legal citizenship and shared values (civic) or on ancestry and ethnicity (ethnic).
• Due Process: The legal requirement that the state must respect all legal rights that are owed to a person, particularly in criminal proceedings.
• Populism: A political approach that appeals to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
• Mass Migration: The large-scale movement of people into a country, identified as a source of societal tension due to "sheer numbers in a short space of time."
• Role of Pubs: Discussed as a significant part of English identity and social life, representing a space for relaxation and enjoyment.

Conservative Party Internal Dynamics and the Rise of Reform UK

The discussion opens with Kem Badenoch's declaration of an end to "psycho drama" within the Conservative Party, criticizing defectors to Reform UK as "careerists," "toddlers," and "drama queens." Interviewed by the Daily Tea, Badenoch firmly rejected the notion of the Tories becoming a "wet party" again, asserting her consistent right-wing stance and track record in government, including reducing ZEV mandates and securing compensation for sub-postmasters.

Badenoch distinguished Conservatives from Reform UK, stating that while many of Reform's policies (e.g., leaving the ECR, opposing "mad net zero plans") are inherently conservative, the fundamental difference lies in "what kind of people we are." She argued that Conservatives "knuckle down, do the hard work," and actively participate in parliamentary votes (e.g., supporting veterans, opposing the surrender of the Chaos Islands), whereas Reform figures like Robert Jenrick and Nigel Farage "don't turn up" for crucial votes, prioritizing "being on telly" over "doing the work that you've been elected to do."

Regarding Jacob Rees-Mogg's earlier suggestion for Conservatives to step aside in the Gorton by-election, Badenoch interpreted it as an attempt to "punch Labor" in a non-winnable seat, not an endorsement of another party, affirming Rees-Mogg's conservative credentials.

Jacob Rees-Mogg's Perspective on Party Unity and Political Rhetoric

Jacob Rees-Mogg clarified his Gorton comment, emphasizing that while he would support a Conservative candidate, in a seat the party "never wins," defeating Labour is "more important." He stressed the fundamental need for the right to unite, including Reform and Conservatives, to achieve a "Conservative with any type of CU like government in 2029." He cited a piece by Trevor Kavanagh in The Sun, advocating for this unity as an "act of generosity" to bring the right together.

Rees-Mogg expressed admiration for Badenoch's "glorious" and "feisty" tone, describing it as "brilliantly funny" and "knockabout stuff" that shouldn't be taken "too seriously," drawing parallels to the political banter between Nick Clegg and David Cameron during the coalition government. He argued that "almost anyone who enters politics is a dramatic psychopath" and that "politics is about strong personalities, disagreeing, clashing, being ambitious." He concluded that people "love the psycho drama," which drives engagement in political discourse.

Critique of Defections and Policy Stances

Rees-Mogg criticized the tone adopted by both sides during recent defections. He condemned the CCHQ comment about Suella Braverman's mental health as "beyond the pale," a "sackable offense," and "almost illegal." He also found Braverman's defection speech, where she called Conservatives "liars," hypocritical, given she stood as a Conservative candidate in 2024. He cited Philip Cowley's estimate that the "personal vote" in British politics is only about 2%, implying most voters support the party, not just the individual. He also deemed Robert Jenrick's attacks on former colleagues "inelegant." Rees-Mogg argued that defectors should acknowledge the "virtues" of the party they are leaving, framing such decisions as "nuance, not of absolutes."

Despite her defection, Rees-Mogg believes Braverman will be "certainly" missed due to her popularity, fundraising ability, and competence, particularly as Attorney General. He dismissed the recent re-emergence of "One Nation Conservatives" like Ruth Davidson and Andy Street, who advocate for a return to the center, as having no real impact, comparing them to the failed "Change UK" party. He asserted that the Conservative Party has "lost its Lib Dem wing," which he views as a positive development, especially given Badenoch's clear stance on leaving the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), a position he believes the "middle muddle fiddle lot" do not share.

On Net Zero, Rees-Mogg criticized even the "One Nation" group's proposals as "too late," advocating for abandoning Net Zero entirely and building gas and coal power stations for "cheap electricity," calling current policies "looney."

Gorton By-election and Labour's Campaign Tactics

Rees-Mogg discussed the Gorton by-election, where Matt Goodwin is the Reform candidate. He criticized a Labour attack ad against Goodwin, which deceptively clipped his comments to imply he disliked Manchester. Rees-Mogg called this an "outright lie" but "not deeply shocking," noting that such tactics have a history in politics (e.g., Liberal Democrat bar charts). However, he deemed the ad "stupid" because it makes Labour look "dishonest, shady, as well as incompetent," won't help their campaign, and "promotes Matt Goodwin's name." He offered general advice: "Never ever mention your opponent. If you mention your opponent, you promote your opponent." He predicted Labour would lose the by-election, which would become a contest between the Greens and Reform, leading to "absolute humiliation for Keir Starmer."

Foreign Policy: China and Shamima Begum

Rees-Mogg agreed with Kem Badenoch that Keir Starmer should not have visited China, especially given the distrust (evidenced by the use of burner phones) and the imprisonment of Jimmy Lai. He explained that Lai, a British citizen and Hong Kong newspaper owner, was imprisoned under China's National Security Law, which betrayed the Sino-British Joint Declaration. Rees-Mogg argued that the UK should be "pretty rigorous" with China, as "we buy much more from China than China buys from us," and China "respects strength."

On the Shamima Begum case, Rees-Mogg maintained his view that she should be permitted to return to the UK, charged with any crimes, and if found guilty, imprisoned in a British prison. He dismissed the claim of her Bangladeshi citizenship as "fanciful" and "nonsense," arguing it creates "two sets of British citizenship" and allows for arbitrary removal of citizenship. He refuted the "risk argument," stating that identified risks can be neutralized through the legal system. He emphasized that Begum was 15 and "groomed," drawing parallels to grooming gangs where society sides with the victims. He framed the issue as one of "due process," not forgiveness, which comes "at the end of due process." He criticized "bad politicians" who pursue populist headlines, believing that when people hear the full arguments (British citizen, can be tried, 15, lost children), they "begin to change their mind."

Rees-Mogg strongly rejected the view that Britishness is about ethnicity, stating it's a "matter of fact, not of emotion." He described citizenship, once granted, as "fundamental" and "not changeable," akin to "baptism," representing a "covenantal nature to citizenship" that makes one "in the family." He dismissed the idea of an ethnic test for Britishness as leading to absurd outcomes. He acknowledged the UK's long history as a "successful multicultural, multi-faith, multi-ethnic union," while also noting that the "sheer numbers in a short space of time" associated with mass migration have created tensions.

Labour Government and the Importance of Pubs

Rees-Mogg characterized the current Labour government as having "no clue what it's doing on anything," describing it as "desperately in the hands of officials," leading to passive and politically unsuccessful policies (e.g., rolling back business rates, reintroducing old police reforms).

Finally, he discussed the importance of pubs to English identity, stating that as "not a Puritan," he believes in people enjoying themselves, and pubs are a place for relaxation and enjoyment, contributing to the social fabric.

Conclusion

The discussion provides a detailed insight into the current state of British politics, particularly the internal struggles within the Conservative Party and its relationship with Reform UK. Jacob Rees-Mogg offers a robust defense of traditional conservative principles, a nuanced view on political rhetoric, and strong opinions on foreign policy and citizenship. The conversation highlights the tension between populist sentiment and adherence to legal principles, particularly in the context of immigration and national identity. It underscores the belief that effective governance requires active parliamentary engagement and a clear ideological compass, rather than passive adherence to official advice or superficial media presence.