Ireland's former Prime Minister on Boris Johnson, Brexit and coming out | BBC Newscast

Key Concepts

• Brexit negotiations and the Irish perspective
• The Backstop and potential time limits
• Leo Varadkar's relationship with Boris Johnson vs. Theresa May
• The possibility of a United Ireland
• Ireland's housing crisis and immigration challenges
• Revisiting the Refugee Convention
• Varadkar's decision to resign as T-shock
• Varadkar's personal evolution on social issues

Brexit and the Backstop

The conversation begins with a discussion of Brexit, focusing on Leo Varadkar's perspective as the T-shock of Ireland during the negotiations.

• Merkel's Regret: Angela Merkel wondered if she could have done more to give David Cameron a better deal to avoid the referendum. Varadkar acknowledges the intellectual exercise of considering alternative approaches.
• Time-Limited Backstop: Varadkar reveals that his government seriously considered a 10-year expiry date on the backstop, despite public statements to the contrary. This was never a "50/50" decision, but a considered option.
  • Reasons for Not Pursuing: Concerns about uncertainty for Northern Ireland and the instability of Theresa May's government were key factors. They feared it would be a "banked concession" leading to further demands.
• Strategy of Openness: Varadkar's general strategy was to be open and honest about Brexit negotiations to avoid leaks, but the backstop consideration was kept private.
• Second Referendum: The possibility of a second referendum in the UK influenced their approach, as remaining in the EU was the preferred outcome for Ireland.
• Engagement with British Politicians: While there were some contacts, Varadkar's government avoided direct support for those seeking to reverse Brexit, deeming it inappropriate interference. He found Jeremy Corbyn surprisingly uninformed on Northern Ireland and European affairs.

Relationship with UK Prime Ministers

• Boris Johnson: Varadkar found Johnson charming, funny, and more flexible and ruthless than Theresa May. They communicated directly via mobile, bypassing officials.
  • Compromise: Johnson's willingness to treat Northern Ireland separately from the rest of the UK was a key factor in reaching a deal.
  • Whirlwind Meeting: A one-on-one meeting and walk in the gardens at a hotel in the Wirral with Johnson was crucial. Johnson was open to separate arrangements for Northern Ireland, something May had rejected.
• Theresa May: Described as a decent and honorable woman, but ultimately less ruthless and less able to push through a deal.

Post-Brexit Ireland

• Border with Northern Ireland: Varadkar notes the border is now barely noticeable, a significant achievement compared to his childhood.
• Fear of EU Exclusion: There was a genuine fear that Ireland could be cut out of the single market if Brexit negotiations failed.
• EU Solidarity: Other EU countries showed solidarity with Ireland, partly to avoid encouraging further departures from the Union.
• Subtext of Brexit: There was an unspoken desire to make Brexit appear unsuccessful to discourage Eurosceptic movements in other countries.
• Cherry-Picking: The EU was firm against allowing the UK to "cherry-pick" aspects of membership without fulfilling obligations.

Irish Politics and Leadership

• Early Interest in Politics: Varadkar's interest in politics began at a young age, influenced by his father's interest in British news and the BBC's international coverage.
• Balancing Politics and Medicine: He struggled to balance his medical training with his political ambitions, eventually choosing politics.
• Brutality of Politics: The book reveals the difficult decisions and compromises required in politics, including falling out with friends and challenging leaders.
• Criticism of Enda Kenny: Varadkar admits to criticizing his predecessor, Enda Kenny, for being good at "slapping backs and smiling" but lacking substance.
• Dublin-Centric Politics: Varadkar addressed accusations of being too focused on Dublin by ensuring his ministers visited all parts of the country.
• Becoming the "Prey": As he rose in politics, Varadkar became the target of criticism, shifting his perspective.

Social Issues and Personal Evolution

• Socially Liberal Shift: Varadkar describes his personal journey from a mainstream conservative to a social liberal, influenced by coming out as a gay man.
• Coming Out: He believes closeted gay men can be more socially conservative due to the pressure to conform.
• Impact of Partner: Meeting his partner, Matt, gave him a different perspective on life and a social circle outside of politics.

Ireland's Challenges

• Housing Crisis: Ireland faces a significant housing crisis due to rising population, incomes, and inadequate building.
  • Intergenerational Injustice: The crisis creates intergenerational injustice and societal divisions.
• Immigration: While historically welcoming, Ireland is experiencing tensions related to immigration.
  • Asylum System: Concerns exist about the asylum system being used to circumvent immigration rules.
• Revisiting the Refugee Convention: Varadkar believes the Refugee Convention should be revisited due to changes in global travel and population.
  • Push Factors: Addressing the root causes of migration, such as climate change and instability, is crucial.

Decision to Resign

• Diminishing Impact: Varadkar felt his initiatives were "landing flat" and the public was no longer listening, making it harder to achieve his goals.
• Political Capital: He recognized his political capital was diminishing, making it difficult to take risks.
• Timing: The upcoming local and European elections were a factor in his decision.
• Jacinda Ardern's Influence: A conversation with Jacinda Ardern about the three ways to leave office (die, lose, or resign) helped him crystallize his decision.

Future of Ireland

• United Ireland: Varadkar believes a United Ireland is more probable than not in the coming decades, driven by demographics.
• Forum on United Ireland: He suggests convening a forum to discuss what a United Ireland might look like, now that Brexit is settled and the Good Friday Agreement institutions are functioning.
• Learning from Brexit: The need to answer all questions about a United Ireland before putting it to a vote is a key lesson from the Brexit referendum.

Pop Culture

• Varadkar is a pop music fan, mentioning writing to Kylie Minogue, attending Mighty Hoopla, and planning to see Katy Perry. He identifies as a "Swifty" (Taylor Swift fan).

Conclusion

The interview provides a detailed look into Leo Varadkar's experiences as T-shock during a turbulent period, particularly concerning Brexit. It reveals the complexities of political decision-making, the importance of personal relationships in negotiations, and the challenges facing Ireland today. Varadkar's reflections on his leadership, personal evolution, and the future of Ireland offer valuable insights into contemporary politics.