If winning is easy, everybody would do it | Patrick Wright, National Australia Bank (NAB) | EP 365

Key Concepts

• NAB's Vietnam Innovation Hub: Establishment and growth of NAB's technology and operations center in Vietnam, focusing on innovation and talent.
• Global Workforce and Collaboration: Managing a distributed workforce across Australia, Vietnam, and India, addressing time zone challenges and fostering cultural understanding.
• Innovation in Banking: Redefining innovation within a highly regulated industry, emphasizing micro-level improvements and empowering on-the-ground teams.
• Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Future Technologies: NAB's strategy for adopting AI, cybersecurity, and automation, with Vietnam positioned at the epicenter of these advancements.
• Leadership Philosophy: Emphasis on hard work, grit, high ambition, and continuous learning as drivers of success.
• "Move with Speed" Culture: The importance of agility and rapid adaptation in a rapidly evolving technological landscape.
• Talent Development: Strategies for nurturing and developing technologists, encouraging broad skill acquisition and continuous learning.
• Cybersecurity and AI Risks: Concerns about the escalating threats posed by AI-powered cyberattacks.

NAB's Vietnam Innovation Hub: A Strategic Imperative

Patrick Wright, NAB's Group Executive for Technology and Enterprise Operations, discusses the strategic importance of NAB's presence in Vietnam, which began over eight years ago with the launch of its innovation center. NAB has since expanded its operations to Hanoi, employing over 2,000 individuals. Wright highlights his personal connection to Vietnam, with his wife being Vietnamese, and his dual citizenship (American and Australian). He expresses his admiration for Vietnam's vibrant and maturing economy, noting the significant changes and growth he has witnessed over his frequent visits.

Wright's extensive international experience across various countries (America, Australia, India, UK, Germany, Portugal, Spain, France, Canada) has led him to a core learning: "great people are everywhere." He emphasizes the critical importance of understanding and respecting local cultures to effectively integrate diverse talent into multinational corporations. For NAB Vietnam, the goal is to harness the "very best of Vietnam" while also bringing the "best of Australia," creating a unique synergy.

Setting NAB Apart: Culture and Youthful Energy

Wright identifies NAB's distinct culture, particularly within its Vietnam operations, as a key differentiator. The average age of staff in Vietnam is under 30, contributing to a dynamic and energetic environment. NAB has cultivated an "employee value proposition" that resembles a tech startup more than a traditional bank, fostering a positive and engaging workplace. This is reflected in their staff engagement surveys, where NAB consistently ranks in the top decile globally.

The role of Vietnam in NAB's global strategy is attributed to the country's youthful demographic, high energy levels, and the inherent creativity and persistence of its people. Wright notes that Vietnamese teams excel at problem-solving, particularly in challenging engineering contexts. He expresses pride in what has been built in Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi.

The Genesis of NAB's Vietnam Innovation Hub

NAB's decision to establish its first innovation hub outside Australia in Vietnam in 2019 was driven by a desire for a location in Southeast Asia with a time zone friendly to Australia. Wright's personal belief in the Vietnamese people and culture was a significant factor. He saw an opportunity for NAB to "blaze a pathway" and make a substantial impact on the local economy, rather than solely targeting the Vietnamese market.

The decision to establish the center was a "two-way door" moment, initially focused on building a small, manageable capability to gain buy-in from the Australian team. A second pivotal moment occurred in late 2021, post-COVID, when NAB decided to "rocket scale" the center, expanding it from an initial ambition of 200 people to thousands. This decision was fueled by the confidence of business leaders who had spent time in Vietnam and witnessed the capabilities of the local staff. Since 2021, the workforce has grown from a few hundred to 2,200 employees. The current building in Ho Chi Minh City represents a significant portion of their capacity, with plans to further grow the Hanoi office.

Defining Innovation in a Regulated Banking Environment

Wright acknowledges that innovation within banks is challenging due to approximately 15,000 regulations and the profound consequences of non-compliance, given that banks handle people's money and data. He defines innovation at NAB as occurring at a "micro sense" on the ground, where developers are empowered to find unique solutions to customer complaints that delight and surprise. This doesn't necessarily involve massive new products but rather enhancing the customer experience.

NAB is actively promoting "autonomy" within its teams. The Vietnam center is transitioning from receiving orders from Australia to having accountability for capabilities and autonomously providing services. This represents a significant maturation point for the organization.

Global Workforce Collaboration and Customer Connection

Managing a global workforce across Australia, Vietnam, and India presents inherent challenges, primarily related to time zones. NAB invests in travel to facilitate in-person collaboration. Despite geographical distances, Wright notes a remarkable sense of customer connection among the Vietnam team, who are described as "self-starters."

To foster this connection, the head of the academy in Vietnam has adapted training materials used for Australian bankers to create the "NAB Business Academy." This initiative aims to systematize customer feedback for global consumption. The concept of "inner loops" (local problem-solving) and "outer loops" (escalation to teams, often in Vietnam, for resolution) is employed. Furthermore, employees are encouraged to spend time in branches and engage with bankers and even experience rural Australian life to build a deeper understanding of the customer.

Wright shares an anecdote illustrating the team's proactive thinking: a young employee raised a concern about potential deployment issues on Friday nights impacting Saturday branch openings, prompting a discussion on alternative deployment strategies. This demonstrates the team's ability to anticipate and address potential problems. The presence of Australian-Vietnamese employees who bank with NAB further strengthens this connection. The Vietnam office is also a global hub, with individuals from various nationalities contributing to the workforce.

Vietnam's Role in NAB's Future Strategy: AI and Emerging Technologies

Wright positions Vietnam at the "epicenter" of NAB's global strategy concerning evolving technologies like AI, automation, and cybersecurity. He views AI as a transformative moment in human history, emphasizing that all 41,000 NAB employees must engage with AI. The tech centers, like Vietnam, will be crucial in achieving NAB's AI ambitions. While the exact future of AI is unknown, Wright is optimistic about its potential to drive significant global change.

AI Infrastructure and Security in Banking

As a technology executive, Wright addresses the implications of AI in banking, particularly concerning sensitive data and compliance. NAB is a "public cloud only bank," with nearly 90% of its operations on public cloud platforms (Amazon, Microsoft Azure, and soon Google). Security is paramount, as NAB brokers trust with its customers.

While embracing AI, NAB ensures that information remains secure and does not "bleed out" into the learning ecosystems of LLMs. They utilize their own LLMs within their cloud environment. Wright distinguishes between generative AI's potential for widespread application and its transformative impact on humankind. He believes generative AI, beyond simple query-response, will enable significant acceleration, allowing NAB to operate at "2x, 5x, 10x" their current speed.

The podcast host notes Vietnam's ambition to become a global AI talent hub, a development that aligns well with NAB's strategy.

Leadership Philosophy: Grit and "Move with Speed"

Wright's personal leadership philosophy is encapsulated in his favorite saying: "If winning was easy, everyone would do it." He believes that success stems from hard work and "grit," enabling the pursuit of ambitious goals that may initially seem unattainable. He admits to pushing his teams hard, setting high goals, and often finding leaders frustrated but ultimately rewarded by achieving these ambitions. This process fosters a sense of accomplishment and encourages further challenges.

He also values feedback and encourages his team to push back when necessary, stating, "people who are really successful working for me come in, shut the door and say what are you doing? Stop it." This highlights the importance of listening and considering different perspectives.

The core behavior of "move with speed" resonates deeply with Wright. He recounts an impactful speech by an Oxford professor illustrating the exponential acceleration of human invention over the last 20,000 years, with the last 50 years being particularly dense with innovation. This led him to believe that continuous acceleration is essential to avoid being left behind.

The Pace of Change: AI and the Next Era

Wright predicts that the current era, driven by AI, will see an acceleration of change far exceeding historical periods like the Industrial Revolution or the invention of the internet. He anticipates that the pace of transformation seen in those eras will occur in a fraction of the time, potentially within five years. He foresees a future where one-person startups can achieve IPOs and where software can be custom-built rather than purchased.

Nurturing Future Technology Leaders

For aspiring technologists at NAB Vietnam, Wright's advice is to "believe in yourself" and cultivate a strong desire to learn. He emphasizes that formal university knowledge may become irrelevant, but the ability to "learn how to learn" is paramount. He encourages young professionals to take risks, explore horizontally across different domains (data, security, architecture, infrastructure), and build a broad foundation. This broad experience is what enables individuals to take on leadership roles managing large teams and diverse departments.

He also stresses the importance of continuous learning for experienced professionals and managers, who can become overly focused on execution and daily tasks. Wright advocates for managers to "go deep dive with your team," conduct skip-level meetings, and engage in engineering presentations to maintain a close connection to the work and enhance effectiveness.

Motivations and Concerns in Banking Technology

After 30 years in banking technology, Wright remains excited by the inherent complexity of running technology and operations in a bank. He enjoys tackling "hard, messy, complicated" issues that are constantly presented. However, what keeps him up at night is cybersecurity, especially when combined with AI. The prospect of "agentic AI" ecosystems being used for mass attacks, with potentially hundreds of thousands of intelligent agents attacking infrastructure, is a significant concern for the next five years.

The Future of AI: A Call for Debate

Wright expresses a desire to engage with individuals who have different perspectives on AI. He believes a robust debate is needed on the future direction of AI, its ethical implications, the balance between speed and profit, and how to retrain the human race to work in a new world with a digital workforce. He encourages the podcast to continue fostering these crucial conversations.

NAB is actively hiring in Vietnam, and interested individuals are encouraged to explore opportunities at their Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi offices.